Difference between revisions of "Design principles"

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; Well.... OK, I'll try. But I've got to say that "interacting in its distinctive spirit" doesn't say much. Don't give me meaningless phrases! Be explicit.
 
; Well.... OK, I'll try. But I've got to say that "interacting in its distinctive spirit" doesn't say much. Don't give me meaningless phrases! Be explicit.
: Fair enough! Let's explore the differences actively doing things on different sites. Let's start by querying Wikipedia with the term [[wikipedia:study|"study"]] and then entering [[study|the same query here]], comparing the results. What happens when you query Wikipedia?
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: Fair enough! To explain fully may take a while.
 +
: I'm game. Give me the gist of points. I imagine you will go into each in more detail at some other time.
 +
: OK. To begin, let's get a taste of what's distinctive here by comparing something here with something on a different site, on Wikipedia. We use its software and aspire like it to steadily grow in scope and quality in the digital commons. We can start by querying Wikipedia with the term [[wikipedia:study|"study"]] and then entering [[study|the same query here]], comparing the results. What happens when you click on the link for "study" in Wikipedia? Check it out and tell me what you see.
  
; You get a page that lists a lot of links to other pages. I think it's called a "disambiguation page." It links to articles that have the word "study" in the article name.
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; You get a page that lists a lot of links to other pages. I think it's called a "disambiguation page." It links to the different articles that have the word "study" in the article name.
 
: Right, and what do you get querying with "study" here on LearnLiberally?
 
: Right, and what do you get querying with "study" here on LearnLiberally?
  
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; Well, Wikipedia uses "study" in naming something—a work, a subject, a film in one case, and a person. It's a noun. On LearnLiberally, "study" is a verb, "to study" and the ''complicater'' get's me thinking about the verb, to study, and links to a whole lot of other verbs indicating the sorts of things people often do while studying.
 
; Well, Wikipedia uses "study" in naming something—a work, a subject, a film in one case, and a person. It's a noun. On LearnLiberally, "study" is a verb, "to study" and the ''complicater'' get's me thinking about the verb, to study, and links to a whole lot of other verbs indicating the sorts of things people often do while studying.
: Yes! Verbs, not nouns, significantly differentiates LearnLiberally. We think free persons learn best by concentrating on their ''doing''. Our inner lives, our lived experience does not consist in static states of being, but in continual, cascading activity—perceiving, acting, controlling—and persons develop by taking care of it all, minding it all. We want our worksite to stimulate and nurture what we can do in the continuous fluxing and flexing as we intentionally experience our lives.
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: Yes! A primacy of verbs, not nouns, significantly differentiates LearnLiberally from other sites. We think free persons learn best by concentrating on their ''doing'', on their acting intentionally in a world of countervailing conditions. Our inner lives, our lived experience does not consist in static states of being, but in continual, cascading activity—perceiving, acting, controlling—and persons develop by taking care of it all, minding it all. We want our worksite to stimulate and nurture what we can do in the continuous fluxing and flexing as we intentionally experience our lives.
 +
 
 +
; So pages on LearnLiberally primarily concern verbs, not nouns. That tells me something, but to be frank, I'm not sure what it really means. How does a page about a verb differ from one about a noun?
 +
: That's an important question, and in turn, to be really frank with you, I must say that we are still working that out in the course of building this worksite. I expect it will be quite some time before we've got it all figured out. Wikipedia and many other encyclopedic projects. I'll explain our initial thoughts about the differences, but please recognize that those are more tentative and possibly subject to significant change as things develop. Encyclopedias have a long history and everyone more or less understands that "encyclopedia articles focus on factual information concerning the subject named in the article's title."([[Wikipedia:Encyclopedia|Wikipedia:Encyclopedia]])
 +
 
 +
; Fill me in on where you're at and I'll look forward to learning more as thinks unfold. I just checked out the link for your quotation and it distinguishes there between dictionaries and encyclopedias, citing various authorities that say dictionaries concern the meaning and use of words in language whereas encyclopedias go more deeply into substantive knowledge about what the things and concepts that the words stand for. Os one put it, "In contrast with linguistic information, encyclopedia material is more concerned with the description of objective realities than the words or phrases that refer to them."<ref>Quoted in note 5, [[Wikipedia:Encyclopedia|Wikipedia:Encyclopedia]], retrieved November 10, 2019, from Hartmann, R. R. K.; Gregory, James (1998). ''Dictionary of Lexicography''. Routledge. p. 49. ISBN 978-0-415-14143-7. Retrieved July 27, 2010.</ref>  Does that distinction for verbs hold here on LearnLiberally?
 +
: Pretty much, but with some key differences. You'll notice a minor one in which a LearnLiberally page will often start with a dictionary definition of the verb it deals with. That's to get the word, the verb, out there clearly. But like the encyclopedia, we want much more importantly to engage the actuality that the verb concerns. We would prefer to not speak of ''the description of objective realities'', however, as that begins to construe the verb as a noun. A noun refers to something ''substantive'', which is the grammatical term for nouns. Verbs are not substantives and there is nothing substantive referenced by them. They concern acting and the difficulty we face concerns figuring out how to deal with the various forms of acting in a meaningful way.
 +
 
 +
; I'm not sure I follow. Does it need to be different?
 +
: Certainly if you look at current practice, the answer is "No!" Query Wikipedia with the verb, "perceive." You get the article on "Perception" via a redirect from "Perceive." Try "argue" and you get "Argument." "Vote" yields "Voting is a method for a group ... in order to make a collective decision or ...." And it is not only Wikipedia. We all talk overwhelmingly as if knowledge comprises substantive knowledge and information about different topics—things or concepts. People habitually convert verbs into related substantives in order to talk about them. That informs witnesses to the acting, but we think it leaves out a lot. You'll ask, "What?"
 +
 
 +
; Yup. What does it leave out?
 +
: It leaves out the intending and the meaning integral in the acting. But I think we need to work with an example in order for what I am saying there to make much sense. Let's go to the page for the verb "To Live." To live encompasses just about all the acting one can do. Curiously, one will find it difficult to query Wikipedia with the verb. "Live"

Revision as of 14:09, 10 November 2019

Principles Used in Forming this Worksite

I sense that www.learnliberally.org differs from other sites on education, but I'm not sure why.
It's good you ask! We are trying to work differently in some key ways and hope you'll participate in interacting on the site in its distinctive spirit.
Well.... OK, I'll try. But I've got to say that "interacting in its distinctive spirit" doesn't say much. Don't give me meaningless phrases! Be explicit.
Fair enough! To explain fully may take a while.
I'm game. Give me the gist of points. I imagine you will go into each in more detail at some other time.
OK. To begin, let's get a taste of what's distinctive here by comparing something here with something on a different site, on Wikipedia. We use its software and aspire like it to steadily grow in scope and quality in the digital commons. We can start by querying Wikipedia with the term "study" and then entering the same query here, comparing the results. What happens when you click on the link for "study" in Wikipedia? Check it out and tell me what you see.
You get a page that lists a lot of links to other pages. I think it's called a "disambiguation page." It links to the different articles that have the word "study" in the article name.
Right, and what do you get querying with "study" here on LearnLiberally?
It's a page that also links to a lot of other pages through a word map with a jumble of words indicating the variety of things students do as they study. If Wikipedia uses a "disambiguater," here it is sort of a "complication page"—I'll call it a complicater!
Interesting. Do you see any other significant differences?
Well, Wikipedia uses "study" in naming something—a work, a subject, a film in one case, and a person. It's a noun. On LearnLiberally, "study" is a verb, "to study" and the complicater get's me thinking about the verb, to study, and links to a whole lot of other verbs indicating the sorts of things people often do while studying.
Yes! A primacy of verbs, not nouns, significantly differentiates LearnLiberally from other sites. We think free persons learn best by concentrating on their doing, on their acting intentionally in a world of countervailing conditions. Our inner lives, our lived experience does not consist in static states of being, but in continual, cascading activity—perceiving, acting, controlling—and persons develop by taking care of it all, minding it all. We want our worksite to stimulate and nurture what we can do in the continuous fluxing and flexing as we intentionally experience our lives.
So pages on LearnLiberally primarily concern verbs, not nouns. That tells me something, but to be frank, I'm not sure what it really means. How does a page about a verb differ from one about a noun?
That's an important question, and in turn, to be really frank with you, I must say that we are still working that out in the course of building this worksite. I expect it will be quite some time before we've got it all figured out. Wikipedia and many other encyclopedic projects. I'll explain our initial thoughts about the differences, but please recognize that those are more tentative and possibly subject to significant change as things develop. Encyclopedias have a long history and everyone more or less understands that "encyclopedia articles focus on factual information concerning the subject named in the article's title."(Wikipedia:Encyclopedia)
Fill me in on where you're at and I'll look forward to learning more as thinks unfold. I just checked out the link for your quotation and it distinguishes there between dictionaries and encyclopedias, citing various authorities that say dictionaries concern the meaning and use of words in language whereas encyclopedias go more deeply into substantive knowledge about what the things and concepts that the words stand for. Os one put it, "In contrast with linguistic information, encyclopedia material is more concerned with the description of objective realities than the words or phrases that refer to them."[1] Does that distinction for verbs hold here on LearnLiberally?
Pretty much, but with some key differences. You'll notice a minor one in which a LearnLiberally page will often start with a dictionary definition of the verb it deals with. That's to get the word, the verb, out there clearly. But like the encyclopedia, we want much more importantly to engage the actuality that the verb concerns. We would prefer to not speak of the description of objective realities, however, as that begins to construe the verb as a noun. A noun refers to something substantive, which is the grammatical term for nouns. Verbs are not substantives and there is nothing substantive referenced by them. They concern acting and the difficulty we face concerns figuring out how to deal with the various forms of acting in a meaningful way.
I'm not sure I follow. Does it need to be different?
Certainly if you look at current practice, the answer is "No!" Query Wikipedia with the verb, "perceive." You get the article on "Perception" via a redirect from "Perceive." Try "argue" and you get "Argument." "Vote" yields "Voting is a method for a group ... in order to make a collective decision or ...." And it is not only Wikipedia. We all talk overwhelmingly as if knowledge comprises substantive knowledge and information about different topics—things or concepts. People habitually convert verbs into related substantives in order to talk about them. That informs witnesses to the acting, but we think it leaves out a lot. You'll ask, "What?"
Yup. What does it leave out?
It leaves out the intending and the meaning integral in the acting. But I think we need to work with an example in order for what I am saying there to make much sense. Let's go to the page for the verb "To Live." To live encompasses just about all the acting one can do. Curiously, one will find it difficult to query Wikipedia with the verb. "Live"
  1. Quoted in note 5, Wikipedia:Encyclopedia, retrieved November 10, 2019, from Hartmann, R. R. K.; Gregory, James (1998). Dictionary of Lexicography. Routledge. p. 49. ISBN 978-0-415-14143-7. Retrieved July 27, 2010.